"What's new, Steve?" - Steve Hackett talks about his current and future projects at the Richmond Hill Hotel, on Saturday, April 28, 2001. Interview by Alan Hewitt. Photos by Dave Whitehouse.

AH: First of all, Steve I have heard about this TV project: "Outwitting Hitler" - how did you become involved in that?

SH: Chris Ward 'phoned me up...

AH: That's the producer, isn't it? SH: He is the director of it and he said that he had this film and he had already cut some of my music to it; he was using "Walking Away From Rainbows" on it and he sent me a rough cut and I said to him; "I can probably come up with something more appropriate" and I was supposed to do the music for it and then suddenly signing the contract got protracted for various reasons and in the end he said "You know; I need this in a couple of days" and he had only just got the contract signed and he wasn't able to get the final cut to me and so he said "is there any way you can send music that is just gash?" and so all the music that you hear was not actually done to picture and I sent him a bunch of things which were just suggested atmospheres for parts of the movie. I sent him more music than he actually used and he ended up repeating some things that he liked; endlessly (laughs) throughout and so at the end of the day, for somebody who is purely interested in the music I wish I could have played a bit more to the visuals.

Alan with Steve, April 28, 2001

AH: Well, having seen the programme, because Chris very kindly sent me a copy, the choice of music he used, in the end does work very well to the visuals and I see what you mean about repetition; there are a couple of pieces he repeats from the "Midsummer Night's Dream" album that he uses time and time again...

SH: So, I ended up doing the thing... I'm glad you said that... that it worked. So, I ended up doing it in one day! (laughs) Which not only he; but Showtime, the company who were funding this project were very pleased with it. That leads me to the conclusion that from what I have heard about it from people who do film and TV music regularly for a living; to a man they all say it is an absolute nightmare because they keep wanting to change things at the very last minute and it is a lot easier to edit film than it is to edit music. It leads me to believe that all film scores should be done in one day! (laughs) You might as well because you have no idea if they want to change... I had no idea if they would want to change every single note or whether they would accept the whole thing so... I don't think there is any point in agonising over film music. You may think of things that are appropriate but at the end of the day you are not really in the driving seat; you're a hired gun. I put it together entirely out of existing stuff a lot of stuff that was around in the past and there are some moments out of some unreleased orchestral stuff that I have at the moment and most of it is sampled and a little bit of it is real. AH: Is this something you have had much experience of before or is it something that you would like to get more involved with in the future, perhaps?

Steve with Alan, April 28, 2001

SH: Well, I think that whatever you think yourself it doesn’t make any difference; you can't make film come to you and it is nice that this one came to me and I did it, and I must say that it was harrowing subject matter and some of the stills of course... I think the moment when they'd got those terrible things happening in the street, I don't know what music they used there it was something else... There was one moment which was more of a sound than music but I don't know what that was, maybe they had taken something of mine and slowed it right down I'm not sure. So, as I say I did the music for it, and I didn't do the music for it! (laughs). I gave them stuff and they edited it but that is par for the course as well these days, isn't it? So guilty as charged!

I have never seen a programme about the war over here with an American narrator which I think there is a perception in this country that the war started in Europe; it's our war (laughs) and we have had Olivier narrating for you, why are you going to want the voice of America so they may well find that there is a resistance to it over here that we are aware of but they may not understand the reason why and I was certainly not going to say "Chris, you may have had more of a chance with an English narrator..." I had that conversation with him already and we went through the current glut of English actors who might be appropriate but at the end of the day I suspect that it is something that is just going to appear.

AH: So, we move on from that and... what activities are you up to at the moment? How is work on the new studio progressing?

SH: Well... let's just say that it hasn't been a priority; I have the other studio and I have been working extensively in that and I will use the other one when the time is right. There has been a lot else going on so I am not really worried about that.. At the moment we are just using it as a rehearsal facility really and do the odd thing in there but...

In terms of what is actually coming out - there is a DVD of The Tokyo Tapes with additional rehearsal footage. Then there is a series of live albums... I have worked on three in fact; '70's; '80's and '90's I don't know if they will be released as a boxed set or not or released individually. Initially I think it is being aimed at the Japanese. Let's see... what else..? That actually kept me quite busy...

AH: Are they actually individual concerts or...?

SH: They are individual concerts, yeah. As far as I am aware there is a Hammersmith; there is another London gig... The Grand in Clapham [this brings a smile to my face because I was at this gig - AH]; and there's a Rome so there's that. There are usually so many things on the go and it is very easy to confuse everybody with what is out there. There is a lot of stuff that is available on MP3 format shall we say which is not the kind of stuff you are going to access via the shops . It is very difficult these days, isn't it? Suddenly people tell you that you are top of the MP3 charts which is interesting; with a re-worked version of "Cassandra" which ironically is something which was produced for an album that couldn’t get a release fifteen years ago and so it seems that the wheels of progress move very slowly. It is nice to have been proved right in the end. Actually, it is a different version; it is a version that was on the American version of "Guitar Noir" when it was released the first time around and it is aversion with me singing the lead and I hadn't heard it for years and Billy played it to me again, recently in the office and the next day it was top of the MP3 charts (laughter). Isn't that strange? I find that very strange. So, when I am talking to you I feel that I am talking to you about things that happen on a global scale and you know; we scored a goal in Argentina... (laughs).

AH: It is good to see that you guys are embracing this technology because you have to beat them at their own game... SH: Yeah, it means that the markets and the victories in those markets are spread over such a wide area that I can't even begin to make my grandmother understand why I'm not on Top Of The Pops and I have to think that maybe in some other region there is something going on that is a success that your heart is gladdened. You are just not in a position to hear it first hand. I think that latterly, there was a lot of interest in the fact that Brian May and I had worked together and then in regard to other things that have happened this week; the "Postmankind" album has been released... AH: That is with Ian Mosley and Pete Trewavas...? SH: Yeah, that's right. It is actually out as Ian Mosley and Ben Castle, son of Roy Castle who I worked with in Italy. I am on three tracks along with various other people; John Etheridge; Steve Rothery and Ian Mosley. I wish I had a copy of the album... AH: How did it feel to be working with the old guys again? SH: Very nice... it was great to be working with Ian again it was really like a day's outing for me; I just turned up and I had never actually met Ben at that point... AH: So this was all pre getting Ben involved in the last tour...?

Steve with Dave, April 28, 2001

SH: Yes, it was it was before the tour and the first thing I did with Ben was working with him in the studio... yeah, working on something that he had done and before that I hadn't heard a note that he had played and that was the first time I met him. He is a phenomenal player; he plays woodwinds; the things that I am aware of to date are: sax; clarinet; flute and possibly other things but he is really a woodwind man and you will hear it all on this album and he is a phenomenal player.

AH: Are Camino distributing that as well?

SH: Well, we act as one of the record shops for this one rather than doing deals with Camino it is not strictly a Camino product but we sell things by association as I am sure you are aware and that was related probably to the family tree. I think that a lot of people are happy now that if there is a particular product that they want, they can go straight to the artist if it is a specialist product. I mean, one always hopes for total world domination but I am happy with decent sales through the company.

AH: I believe you played at Gandalf's twentieth anniversary gig as well...?

SH: That's right, yes. I flew over to Vienna for it and had a rehearsal for it I think, the same day and played four numbers with him; one of which I had learned the day beforehand which was possibly the best played of all the numbers (laughs) because it had the most room to stretch out and improvise which seems to be a growing thing for m; getting up with people and improvising and jamming. That seems to happen to me a lot these days and I do it with the local Blues scene from time to time...

AH: I heard tell of something like that.. a Blues jam at Eel Pie Island not so long ago...?

SH: It is called The Eel Pie Blues Club. Yes, it's a local thing, you know support your local Blues community and it is something that I prefer to do unannounced rather than... the trouble is if you are billed doing it they expect it to be your show and it isn't; I just get up and play with whoever is playing be it The Yardbirds or Tom Nolan's Bluescasters whatever...

AH: So it is just get up there and have a blow, basically?

SH: Yeah, exactly, and talking of that; getting up and having a blow; Mike Giles of the original King Crimson 'phoned me recently and said.... I'm not sure if this is common knowledge or not yet; it probably is; but I think they are trying to reform the original Crimson for a gig and a film; and he asked me if I would take part in that with various members of Crimson throughout the ages (laughs) are involved and at least it is nice to be asked to be involved so there was that conversation with Mike Giles about that and with Ian MacDonald about that and I hope it comes off and Mike seems to be in the driving seat of that one at the moment and Crimson have agreed to do it. I don't know how firm it is; but it is one of many ideas...

AH: I see that at last the "A Midsummer Night's Dream" album has been re-issued, EMI have finally got their act together...

SH: Yeah, we have actually got the rights back to that so we can release that on Camino so there was a time when that wasn't available for which I offer sincere apologies; particularly to those people who wanted to get married to the music from Celebration (laughter) and we weren't able, as it were; to provide it. So we have got the rights back to that which is just great as far as I am concerned.

AH: That begs the question, is there any movement on the vexed issue of the rights to the back catalogue from Virgin yet, or is that still...

SH: No, that is still a fallow field as it were. I can't do anything about that stuff; it is still in the lap of the gods, I can't do anything about that unfortunately. All I can say is that we control the majority of the catalogue and some things will just have to wait. Unlike EMI who have given us back the rights so that we can re-issue; repackage or remix if we want. It is all down to wheels within wheels and it is not the same people that you would be dealing with to get those rights and that is a frustration for Billy rather than for me.

AH: Has there been any... I remember last time we spoke, which was the day I got grilled for once! (laughs) you mentioned that there was another acoustic/orchestral work in progress is that still...?

SH: Part of that was used for the "Outwitting Hitler" soundtrack; very little of it; but part of it was used on that and it all helps to fund what will be the eventual...

AH: What is this envisaged as; because you mentioned a Guitar Concerto...

SH: Well, it is really guitar and orchestra whether or not you want to call it a "Concerto" and I think that I am not going to use those sort of archaic terms like "concerto" and "symphony" and all the rest. It is music for guitar and orchestra at the end of the day. A romance for guitar and orchestra...

I am still proud of "A Midsummer Night's Dream" and again; it still comes back to the same issues which are: the funding of an orchestral project is... obviously a major investment, that's the thing and so far I have managed to record quite a lot of it with a small group of players; tracking them up and using a certain amount of samples and at the end of the day it may be done with an orchestra or it may continue to be done in this fashion of bit by bit; chipping away at the block and... A lot of it comes down to funding, it is a lot easier to be honest to make a convincing rock album whether you have got a band or whether you are sitting in front of a computer you are dealing with accepted... rock music is no stranger to the use of samples. When it comes to orchestral music; it is traditionally grown more "organically" - it is much harder, and I have used these terms before, to make it emanate and flow and come across convincingly I think a sample is spotted a mile away unless your people are playing very precisely on the beat and it has some kind of rhythmic urgency to it, it is quite hard. Funnily enough, when I was working on "Darktown", there were quite a lot of orchestral samples used on it and one or two people have said that it sounded every bit as lush as the orchestral stuff on "A Midsummer Night's Dream". All I know is that it takes a lot longer doing something bit by bit and deliberately making those samples play out of tune and out of time with each other and it is like making a cathedral out of matchsticks and it takes a bloody long time to create the effect of what an orchestra does in one go! (laughs) and really if it is something that is supposed to be an orchestra then it is better to use the real thing, so...

AH: While on the subject of "Darktown", is there a follow-up album in the pipeline...?

SH: Well, there is, there is and I have been working on it bit by but and these things take me years and luckily the soundtrack for "Outwitting Hitler" took a day! (laughter) but albums take me years because it is not just a case of me sitting down and doing one thing. As you know, I have got a number of projects on the go at any one time and in order to bring that to a conclusion it is an economic exercise and there may be a tour coming up in South America. I will find out exactly very soon. How are things going with the book, by the way?

AH: I don't know for sure. I have heard that it is sold out but I'm not sure...

SH: It has sold out? So you are in the black rather than in the red? Good.

And that is where we leave this one, folks. My thanks again to Steve for taking time out of his Saturday to talk to us. To John Wood for helping to finalise things. To Billy Budis for being steady at the helm and to Dave for being our photographer for the day.